Speaker 1 0:01 Memories of the immediate encounters that we have, or the last encounter with a friend, or the immediate conversation in which we are engaged in at the moment, we also need short term memory and safety plan has found that other technologies, other than computers, although related to them, have this quality while you're dealing with more ethereal messages, with messages that are not stored, such as the text messages that we can find in cellular telephones. And she has found specific uses that migrating communities make of cell phones. It should be a rather obvious thing, since sometimes that's the only way they can connect with their motherland or with family they left behind. But beyond that, she has found the cell phone as a useful image to deal with it, with what the kind of knitting together of communities that a cell phone can do, and extended the metaphor to talk about actual knitting. And indeed, I would not even think it is a metaphor. Altogether, as you probably are aware, the very first use of software in industry was the weaving machine, the patterns that get weed into a particular textile where where a punch as holes in wooden cards that they were read by a compayat controlling device that transformed them into movements of the Doom. And although knitting is quite different than than weaving, as she's going to tell us briefly, the idea that textiles to achieve a space, space with certain characteristics, and that those characteristics can be detached from the textiles themselves and other subtrata, other other mediums that can carry the same patterns. Well, of course, that that idea echoes many of the things that we were talking about yesterday, about topological forms being actualized in a wide diversity of actual forms. Or this morning, with Brian's lecture as to a perceptual pattern, such as launching that can be also perceived in completely different rhythms, as he was calling them, rhythms that can be detached from their from their material vehicles and seen instantiated in different parts. Well, so is the space of textiles in different ways. We can not only metaphorize about it, but indeed detach a certain topological aspect of multiplying isomorphisms, deeper isomorphisms and just metaphors or analogies between the different spaces. So I'm going to, I want to leave that as the introduction, Sadie is going to give a wonderful presentation about this. All I have to say about her. She's not, at the time, teaching anywhere, and I just want to mention the three wonderful books that she's written, the most radical gesture the first one, then another one on questions of feminism and digital culture, called zeros and ones, and the last One called Writing on drugs. So please help me welcome thank you very much. Speaker 2 3:37 For as usual, great introduction. Manuel, I feel really bad. I think all the Anglo speakers here tend to refer to as manual as well, something that comes with a computer far more Hispanic and Manuel as Speaker 2 3:57 manual said, I would like to really one of my good things for this evening will be the technologies of mobile communications and wireless technologies in general. But given that this whole event is called Data knitting, I really would like to take seriously this notion of knitting and explore it, as you've suggested, as much more than a metaphor, much more than a set of metaphorical connections. I so I suppose one of the things I would like to do is, really, if you like, explore the archive of knitting or the archive of fraternity at least. And I guess primarily, although in my biography of the publication that is attached to this meeting, which is instead a completely fictitious and suggest that I'm teaching at Manchester University, which I'm not at all, but nevertheless, really what I'm much more doing now, I suppose, in writing primarily, rather than, I would say, being in class or being a teacher, writing things I'm concentrating on. And then, obviously. Words and all their resonances, of course, became a multiplying raw material, and without meeting, I told making some big point here about status of language and significance of words and terminology and so on. But it just seems a shame to use words like meeting without taking full advantage of incredibly rich resource that there's one term where Black can open up historically, ethnologically, mythologically, and all sorts of resonances, which in particular sort of individuals as well. So our words, we can fix resources they carry through, like implicit, tacit, kind of archives in themselves. And that's really our primary take this technology seriously. Technology seriously. So what I'd like to do is to knit this notion of knitting together with mobile wireless communications, primarily the humble mobile phone, talking more generally about far more sophisticated wireless Unknown Speaker 5:59 futures as well, Speaker 2 6:01 obviously in relation to the question of archiving and the keeping the records and history and so on. Many aspects of the mobile phone and the ways in which it's used seem to be escaping the archives, if you like. Most of the messages that are sent are very challenging. They're very contingent. They're passing messages. They tend not to be recorded. People don't keep them, even though, of course, one can say it's technically possible to do so by transferring them to a local medium, but on the first of it, they could really seem to lend themselves more to forgetting the same memory. They just simply pass through our lives. Now obviously this may not be and copy is not true at all on the level of the state. I'm really talking about this in terms of one's own personal experience of these messages in these days of we seem to be having to collaborate to project the security of some of the homeland somewhere across the Atlantic. And clearly we're looking at a situation where potentially, all of our text messages, all of our voice calls are, in fact, stored and searched and archived database on massive computers somewhere totally outside reach. So I'm not at all suggesting that we're looking at some unarchivable system here, but simply that people's everyday experience of it is, I think it's, and of course, just on this more seriously, the kind of side of mobile phone tracking and the keeping of information. Obviously, we've already seen many cases all over the world, people being arrested or even assassinated by simply using a mobile phone. It is, of course, by definition, a tracking device. So even in this sense, if one's kind of leaving an archive of one's movements, as well as the messages and policies Unknown Speaker 7:50 are saying to using it, Speaker 2 7:52 there are even more like marriage possibilities as well this notion of cell bar, of using the network of mobile phone mass as a kind of radar surveillance system, which, you know, opens up all sorts of absolutely horrific terrorism questions. But I suppose the fact that mobile communications have these kind of two sides, on the one hand, very anonymous and so very general and fleeting, on the other side, potentially infinitely recordable, each rather like the issue of archiving in relation to all digital communications and digital technologies. Unknown Speaker 8:34 In one set of Speaker 2 8:36 digitalization seems limited, more and more information, more layers of information, the sense of the archive more dynamic. More complete, ingrained organization. On the other hand, seems to be that digital archiving almost threatens the Hospice of keeping anything at all. You know, talk to many librarians about the issues involved in archiving material in the present moment, then their big fear is constantly that things getting lost and information needs to be constantly updated, migrated into new systems, and that, in fact, digitization opens up new possibilities of losing information. So maybe mobile communications really speaks to both ends of that particular spectrum. But certainly, as I say in present, the mobile phone still seems to offer the possibility of a certain level of anonymity and a certain sense in which one's movements and messages are not being archived, at least in one's private life. Just simple example, phone messages to teenagers, for example, always, of course, is to come through preparing for people who own the phone have a phone or to pay. Now, those messages tend not to come through these living in a time of much more direct and therefore potentially a model of immediate communication. Therefore, I. Again, on this individual level, I suppose this allows both our communications to participate in a kind of aural culture, or they touch base with this kind of water on called the essential ethnicity. These are sounds or messages that only exist when they're going out of existence. So in this sense that they're very direct, interpersonal, immediate messages often rely on very specific, local, shared cultural assumptions, very local cultures or local codes, which move very quickly, the sort of rapid, spontaneous inventions and mutations of language like you see, for example, in text messaging and so on in all these ways, even text messages, although they're written, they behave much more like acts of speech than they do written text. Of course, this doesn't really signify some kind of return to oral culture, because we're not living in an oral world at all. It's really one strand that makes many, many different means of communication that we have, but nevertheless, it is true that mobile messages are immediate. They're short term. They're made and read and often responded to as quickly as they travel. They're often composed and received and transmitted with very little thought and very little consequence. And of course, these really are not messages made to last. If you want a communication to last, you're not going to send it as a text message. They belong to this kind of social world involves very flexible lines, so that, for example, sudden changes of plan, the sense that everything's contingent, everything can be changed in a moment, last minute, approximate arrangements can be made, or else they belong to the realm of gestures, haptic gestures, digital squeezes of the hand, if you like, small expressions of affection. Again, it's actually the kind of feeling that in a pre digital age, has never been archived in all your sense of understanding the term archive. So my first question, when I started really addressing this way back last year for this conference, is, what's left of such communications once they fade away, or once they're erased, once you press the delete button your text message, what happens to it is the arc, the absence of an archive, in this sense, necessarily to the detriment of our personal memories, our senses of our own past or our collective histories. Does it even matter that we don't give any records, that we have no archives of these messages or the links, the relationships, even the people, because we were making contact, they could, of course, say, and it would be true, because many ways, this situation already arrived over 100 years ago that we hadn't found that was really the time when we had an explosion of these new kinds of messages, these kinds of messages that weren't any longer being recorded, and before that, things have left their calling card, which is very archival. They would send postcards, telegraph some of these have a different kind of life to a telephone conversation or telephone message. So at the end of the 19th century, when telephone begins to really explode in the early 20th century that there is a corresponding explosion of messages. Some of them are substituting for things that were not written down, letters, postcards and so on. Others are some substituting for face to face communication. People speak on the phone instead of meeting directly. But most of them presumably quite new. This really was a new medium, and therefore opened up a new block of messages, if you like, a new kind of messages that one wasn't really just substituting from old times. It was a new kind of communication in itself. Now at that moment, of course, and Herbert Castle famously surprised the explosion of the telephone in that period with the great organization of cities, of the reverse and of a certain kind of social life within these new concentrations, these new urban concentrations in the early 20th century. Now we can see this almost happening again as a second kind of telephone moment, if you're like in relation to the mobile phone. I mean, this time, I think it's not about the consolidation organization of cities. In fact, it's about a new sense of mobility. And this really does, of course, time, as Nova suggested, we argue this presentation this morning, obviously we are looking at a world increasingly mobile populations and our combat system, this obviously doesn't suit an infrastructure of fixed, stable lines and connections. There is like a new need for a sense of direct mobile communication between mobile individuals. And I think. It really is true, although it can be same way tried to say, but it is nevertheless even statistically true. And it certainly feels true to say that we are living in times of unprecedented movement, not just in terms of tourism, business travel, you know, all of those fascinating ways of moving around the world. But if you look at a country like China, for example, at this very moment, it's probably facing movements that are historically unprecedented scale of people moving from rural areas into the city, talking about movements that we probably here find the most incomprehensible in terms of their scale. China is, of course, one of the country will be leading consumer mobile phones at the moment. Even though 10% of the Chinese population actually own a mobile phone, they are, in fact, the whilst leading market, so to speak. And we can see that kind of phenomenon happening all over the world, and as has already been suggested today, in seeing that kind of commitment, obviously we see great dislocations, great disruptions happening. And in fact, in China, these are even more marked by fact that, remember, since they had this one child policy for the last, what 28 years, I think it is now. Then obviously, almost everybody under the age of 30, let's say who is around them that is the only child, and therefore has their friends, their sisters, increasing, younger generations have their aunts and uncles, cousins, etc. You can imagine the whole notion of what a family is has undergone this incredible upheaval. Now, this kind of movement I'm talking about to the cities would obviously be dramatically under normal circumstances, but when families only have one child, and that one child goes from Wales border area to Beijing, for example, then of course, you're losing most precious assets and new ways of keeping in touch, new practical, ordinary, everyday, prosaic ways of making contact, obviously become increasingly important in their circumstances. So you really see the mobile phone being used in China as a way of maintaining these incredibly fragile, precious links between the only child the family that they've deprived, often the remote countryside where, of course, there would normally have been no telecommunications infrastructure. It's all the large mobile telephony Speaker 2 17:31 so people are often maintaining using this technology to maintain links that have been lost. Likewise, of course, they're often using the technology to establish new connections as well. When they get to the other end, all of these lonely, only children who collide in Beijing, they're obviously using mobile technologies to establish themselves, establish new social networks and so on. And we don't have to look, of course, to China to see what's happening in the West. Of course, we've got many people using the technology exactly these ways, and again, very much, as Argent suggested this morning, in terms of the use of the net, although I of course would suggest that mobile phones become perhaps more significant, but certainly just down the road from where I live, in Birmingham in England, was a huge hostel for asylum seekers, and to leave all of their new mobile phones again, both to maintain or re establish lost connections, but also to try and read to newly to establish themselves in their new environment, as well as keeping themselves in touch with the old ones. And again, these are people who are not so long ago, how would you ever have a pension like the UK? Even now, you need a fixed address, you need credit, raising a bank account, and we need so many kinds of social markets we're like, before you can even get close. It will take you years if you ever made it, whereas now, of course, in principle, you can just walk into a shop and purchase the thing, and then you do have a number, you've got that establishment immediately. So it's a very practical difference. And on this design of making new connections, you can see that remote home in many unlikely parts of the world, and in ways which are quite contrary to, of course, all the ways in which the mobile phone has ever been marketed and promoted by the corporations, I should say, as an aside, but you can see it being used again to establish very new kinds of connections, which may not sound very dramatic or significant to us, but on the ground, if you Like, can make an enormous difference, again, especially in context for people who can then have access to technologies of community communication. Often, for example, people are using these technologies because they are so direct and personal to really get rid of the middle map, because often the courses that they. Of every small scale trade of life all around the world. And I've spoken, whilst doing this research, to a whole range of people who tell a very similar story about being able to pass out all these ends, intermediaries, the conflicts and so on in one's life. From for example, go, go. Dancers in Bangkok were starting to be able to organize their own appointments without news going through the pink system that obviously keeps the whole thing under control. In the city like Bangkok, farmers on the Ivory Coast are using mobile phones to check also commodity prices. So again, they're not just simply having to take the Lewis dealers word for a lot of things that really were some market traders who are moving up and down the East African coast using mobile phones related movements find out what evidence where things can be sold so on. So that kind of economic grassroots impact that mobile technology can have, we've also obviously seen great potential with kind of political mobility, with mobile phones as well. Demonstrations over the last few weeks, of course, really come into its own in that respect alone. Two years ago, when the Australian Government fell in the Philippines, this is called the texting Revolution by much of the mainstream media, but they weren't looking at a serious point, which was that, again, Philippines, whilst not having a large number of mobile phones, certainly had vast usage of that music very politicized ways to bring people together demonstrations or simply spreading this about what's happening. And it also has a psychological mobility. And perhaps this is more relevant to the developed world. You see, for example, in Tokyo, and of course, increasing the main parts of the whole developed world, people using mobile phones to coordinate almost every aspect of their social life, from navigating into this space to find unique arrangements to meet, Unknown Speaker 22:08 often to meet people that they've also met through the mobile Speaker 2 22:14 phase. Now, these kinds of uses of mobile technology represent subtle but pervasive changes to the practice of any way applied for people's perceptions of themselves in the space that they occupy, the network which they're part of. And for example, in Japan, which is, of course, a very highly ritualized, very formal culture, in many ways, if you make an appointment in Japan, you know it really is made, or it was made and fixed, and you have to be on time. It's extremely comfortable society, but now there's a new attitude for this kind of arrangement. It's all very loose and flexible. We make a vague arrangement to meet next week, and when next week comes, it gradually gets more and more hometown, almost until the very moment you actually come together, when this sort of virtual meeting starts to become actualized in the moment. Now, obviously this kind of connectivity, if you like, can also produce effective dislocation, which is why I think you hear people constantly, usually on trains, which goes from the environment you must behave one of our phones in having these kinds of, what I would call location conversations, where people say, for example, where are you? Always want to keen now, where are you to relocate to kind of dissipate environment. And of course, the classic answers are either I'm on the train, which, of course, doesn't answer Unknown Speaker 23:38 still I'm on the mobile. You mark, Speaker 2 23:45 but certainly everybody, I mean, what you're locating, course, is not the geographical place you're locating. What you've got is almost another form of person. It's a very immediate, direct, almost like intimate, kind of technology, which would be carried on the Baltic wall in a very close two body language. And in fact, this is, I would suggest, the first piece of technology after many, many years of speculating about this kind of thing. But it really is the first piece of technology that we've started as a mass of people all over the world to wear. It's the first piece of technology really is becoming like our clothing. It really is operating in ways which have been often talked about in very metaphorical and poetic terms, that we were clue onwards as a kind of second skin. And very much like clothing, it has an impact on our behavior and on our perception to ourselves and on appearance and so on to the outside world. So I would suggest that the mobile shift is we're not just talking about an avant garde somewhere, either artists or technicians, but involved. It's really coming. And I. The evolution of our clothing, of our skin, at this interface between the body and the world. While this is really making and it's really introducing a new set of possibilities of interconnected individuals, new kinds of networks between mobile points, rather than a fixed web tournament. So terminal. You can see this actually in operation in a very interesting way, again, being coordinated this week by bus theory as part of this festival. Can you see me now? That's a game that really does take advantage of mobile technologies, whilst technologies operating in effect as clothing, as an interface. Unlike the internet, which is very much something that you tend to access in a private space behind closed doors, mobile technologies are not only used in public domain, but they're seen to be used as well. So it's the first time we really have this performative aspect of the technology, again, operating as so the mobile is really the first technological device to be really used as this constant accessibility and effectively, all of the garments adopted almost as commonly as automatically, as COVID. And it's because of this possibility that mobile communications don't operate in some exclusive virtual domain. Instead, they're in this constant Unknown Speaker 26:25 interaction with geographical mobility. Unknown Speaker 26:30 So it's really bringing the body into play. Speaker 2 26:33 We're looking at technology in the context of the body, and the character of the interface is very specific to this relationship to the evolution of clothing, which by extension, includes itself an evolution of the skin, COVID alpha. And of course, skin, like clothing, serves many different functions. These informations are multi functional themselves. It's both matter, for example, of protection and also communication, survival, protection in that sense, but it's also about adornment and ornamentation. It's about protecting the body, but it's also about projecting something about the body as well. So in all these respects, it clearly is an interface. It's a connection with the world and its riding fund between you and the world as well. And I'm very struck by the endurance of opposing textiles imagery in although the last couple of days, in fact, obviously this whole festival, but also all of the areas around digital art and technologies. I mean, obviously we've got the classic example of the worldwide web, the web, where the courses are a technical term for a woven product. But at this festival alone, we've given the workshops and events and so on. And we've not only got this broad theme of data missing, there's a workshop called Media meeting. There's another one called David. Just now is referring to tapestries of production, the motives and the imagery key servicing old textiles and fabrics and clothing. And this is also true in relation to this other area of memory and archiving as well, all the way through and only Western literature and Western mythology, but you can find constant references to textiles and textile production in relation to these ideas of archiving, memory, what's kept and what's lost. It seems that there's something about textile art which always comes back to this, some maybe some notion of constraints of memory and so on. And of course, often textiles really are imbued with living memory, either from their production already, of course, they use people have very personal memories associated with particular fabrics and so on. And of course, this is why patchwork is such a wonderful expression of a collective memory got married in or whatever it might be, and the whole thing gets put together into a new memory effect. Unknown Speaker 29:14 But even in terms of abstract patterns, Speaker 2 29:19 actually kind of woven into class, for example, and indeed representation design Unknown Speaker 29:27 in that kind of the history of textile production, Speaker 2 29:32 see this in his especially rich form in Islamic tradition of carpet production, for example, because that's based on On garden design and so on. But because of these dynamic concerns about dangers of representation of art and tend to obviously get a lot of creative activity sunk into abstract art, you get these incredibly beautiful, symmetrical designs which do operate as kind of encoded information in for. On the carpet, although I should just mention that, because they always include a mistake. There is no Islamic carpet or niche painting or whatever it might format, it might say without an error. Because they do, of course, believe that only Allah can make everything perfect. And so if man has made it, then it had to have an error in some way. So you've got a carpet and you think we're mistaken, and it's a deliberate mistake. Anyway. Now, as Manuel said, the role of weaving in particular in this one story is not at all metaphorical. And I don't want to talk too much about this, because I have talked about it over the years, many, many times, and I'm sure you've already heard before, but nevertheless, in the history of confusion, just very, very briefly, certainly this is where we think has far more than a metaphorical role to play. The Jackal Loon, which is the device my knowledge referring to in his introduction, was really one of the most advanced pieces of technology at the beginning of the 19th century. And this was a, in fact, the first programmable machine one can stay looking back with hindsight and visibility so to see what programmable would become. But effectively, it did allow for the weaving, the all the automatic weaving of designs which were to be programmed into the system. And of course, Jack Our village is still used to produce very ornate textile patterns. And obviously the whole role of textiles and industrial revolution in terms of their production as well, and not just in terms of this specific history. In relation to the history of a computer is very crucial. It was this technology with Jack Rhone that angels Babbage first picked up on when in the again, early period of the 19th century, they began to see the potential for what they called an analytical engine, which we would call a computer, as literally an abstract weaving machine. Ada Lovelace talked about the computer weaving algebraic formula in exactly the same way that jackal loop had woven its patterns of flowers and leaves and the designs on the cloth in the crop. So that was a very fascinating story about weaving. But if you want a really close fitting interface for the body, weaving is actually not so useful. If you want a real second skill in a classical technical sense, then you need far more flexibility. And this is where knitting really comes into its own. And knitting itself, of course, the wonderful repository of memory, in the same way as things like Islamic carpets. If you look at especially the Scandinavian countries and the northern islands of Scotland, there are, for example, you find incredibly detailed telephone patterns each of you know, all of which are usually very specific to particular knitters or particular conditions or particular pieces local communities on the Isle of Aaron, where they have only single color Unknown Speaker 33:16 garments knitted by hand, Speaker 2 33:20 All of the designs in the texture of the garment, rather than different colors. But in that case, the patterns are encoded in the jungle, which, again, relate to very local communities, specific parts of villages. This is because they're worn by sailors if the sailors drown or lost the sea of non bottoms, wearing their their fabulously wearing their jumpers their knitted garments, then they can be identified to the village they came from by the patent Earth jumper that they're wearing. So this kind of encoding of memory really has often, historically served a very specific, practical purpose. But what's really distinct about knitting, as opposed to weaving and many other forms of textile, is that knitting is really just one big series of loops. In fact, you could almost describe it as one very big loop knot, a piece of knitted fabric. And it's this process of looping, whereas, of course, weaving is a really a very sprited thing, but it's this process of looping that really gives the finished fabric. It's about visiting. It's kind of deep, it's flexibility. It's what allows it to really fit the body. It kind of stretched fabric by definition, because of this technique of association of roots. And in fact, it's thought that socks were the oldest, that the first things to be made through this technique that we do. And obviously the Fauci is a very peculiar thing to wrap in a cloth, if it's not a very flexible cloth. You can imagine that woven cloth is very useful for making the socks as well. So you really do need this kind of COVID flexibility to. Those fit to make socks, and the oldest examples of knitting to survive were in fact, preserved in terms of Arabia. Knitting also has a certain kind of contingency, and this is partly because it so easily wears out and it can also be undone. You can knit a square, let's say, and if you just pull on the thread, you can unrule the whole thing and turn into something else. Now that, again, is something you can't do between it. Once it's woven, you can pause and do it, but you'll end up with lots of different pieces of thread which are very difficult to recombine in some other way, so it doesn't have to be unpicked. It can simply be called and as you if you have ever needed something in the company of a cat, you'll know that in a matter of moments, the whole thing has gone. It's also a technique which is often done by function for traditionally, at least in a fairly automatic way. In fact, Freud and Roy, in their always interesting source for kind of hysteria, so to speak, picks up on knitting as one of the many processes that hysterics tend to do, because they can be performed, as they said, by cranking with only half their minds. But this really is a very true point that people do this whilst reading books, watching TV, audio on Unknown Speaker 36:35 the street. I mean, there's almost no limit to what you Unknown Speaker 36:40 is literally very mobile. Unknown Speaker 37:02 It really can be picked up and put down. Unknown Speaker 37:10 Historically, many Unknown Speaker 37:14 has this sense of mobility, Speaker 2 37:17 for example, this notion that you can, you can take a walk, if you live as you're going the English nails, which is one area of England, very famous for hand missing. It was said in the 19th century, the woman hits when her household work is done, the man wins out of work. Dog work is done as they walk about in their garden or go from one village to another. The process is going on. And it was also that people would knit, walking, talking or begging without hardly ever looking at their work. So this is impression that you can do, along with many other things, if you'd like. What are we looking at here with knitting. It's a flexible contingent, mobile second skin. It's cheaply produced, almost automatically produced by people who barely need to be in fact, a task that really fits seamlessly into their mind, their bodies, where fingers are engaged in, almost without. Now, that's a description of knitting, but I would also suggest that it's really our experience of data in the age of the mobile phone. The thing about knitting is that it's left hardly any archives. I've mentioned these plots in Arabia, but they really are extremely that's about the only thing that has survived from antiquities. You might say this is true with to some extent, with all the textiles near all textiles tend to drop out of our official histories, partly because, for example, archeologists the way people throw the textiles away, because they find things about something textbooks, and they think, what's this? It's a pot. And they throw them away where it's often a cloth which really contains so much of the information that really is holding it, often as a pattern or some kind of code. So a lot of them have literally been overlooked in that great, prosaic and walking away. But the thing about knitting in particular that it's nearly always been used to make garments such as socks, and which remains, in fact, you know, one of its prime uses at even Machine Age, and garments like that are made to be worn, and they are made to be worn out again. They're not made to be kept. There's no intention. When you produce something Unknown Speaker 39:33 into production, you're not making the buyers chemistry. Speaker 2 39:38 So the garments, and of course, even increasingly, the skills tend to die out as well the memories of all these patterns of the burials and the island. So again, the question, what happens to all these processes, these patterns, the social functions involved in the team, all the activities associated with it? Do they just disappear and tell. Am irretrievable somehow, or are they, in fact, examples of things which may not make it into the archives as explicit data, but are nevertheless no less significant to that. It seems to me that the patterns and the processes isn't the meanings of them, since a sort of migrant becoming part of the material history of a new set of relationships, like a new set of techniques or technology. They may appear to leave no traces. They may be literally overlooked and passed by. But of course, that doesn't mean that they don't matter. I want to suggest that they end up being somehow implicit or tacit, and that just brings us back to Brian and see this fascinating talk this morning. They perhaps end up being implicit in the technologies of the President. I was really impressed by Simon Conway Morris's comment yesterday. In fact, looking at this slide, he had the assignment, but anywhere the cliff endorses and he pointed out that 90% of times registered on this obviously, of course, you can't say that 90% is therefore irrelevant. Without that, 90% the time of the event will never have happened. But I do think it's a significant point that after the possibility of archiving extent, we all have to be careful, perhaps, but we don't make the mistake of thinking that our archives are complete in the sense that what we see is what's actually there. And just for a moment to look at what he's documented in history of music, because obviously, I don't want to suggest that it doesn't have any kind of archive at all. I've already mentioned these Arab socks, and after that, really much of the 20th century popularity of his team and all its most records as well, indeed, is its very inaccurate characterization of women's work, because it really is a case of technology that has become associated with women, but it's not, in fact, female technology. But it all goes back to the First World War when women who were left behind at home were encouraged to lit socks and hats and gloves for their men on the front lines. In fact, slogan was, our boys need socks lit your bit. I was very interested to see that this has quite a bizarre really, people that were now living in a different era, but it has an updated version. It is happening in World War One. Happened in World War Two. Now it's happening in what the event in world war three. There's now a project for the troops of operation, Enduring Unknown Speaker 42:38 Freedom, of course, adventure we're about to come, Unknown Speaker 42:41 which has already knitted 35,000 Speaker 2 42:46 pairs of socks and so on, for the troops serving in the Gulf, I worked at a quarter of a million of them. There 215 1000 pairs of socks to make. Now, at the time of the First World War, the soldiers who received these items obviously didn't really want to be COVID these two rather like text messages, that same public suggestions, I'm really running out of time. Unknown Speaker 43:18 These are really gestures of affection. They were sent as a fact Speaker 2 43:22 that the solar has used today for the current campaign to get to American Women's, and it's soft for the boys in the front is to send a home from home. So the point is not really to provide the garments. Again, it's a transient, ephemeral kind of message, of gesture, of infection. And the soldiers who received them used to joke about because they were often really badly made Unknown Speaker 43:48 sitting in the trenches in the first world war with one stop. But Unknown Speaker 43:53 they used to joke about Speaker 2 43:58 these pieces of lumps of air with all around, rather than that's how useless they thought. But in fact, this leads me onto a really useful connection, because these lumps are there with wool around. Are, in fact, what gives initiative goods their heat, collecting politics and makes them warm, which is why real wet still wear them. It's a way of tapping things in those holes. It's really the bad way of clothing works. You know, by extension, you just tap a layer of air between you and your clothing in the secure form and in exactly. Picking up on this idea is where we see these kind of migrations happening. This is now becoming the basis for wearable electronics. When I talk about wearable electronics, I mean chips, for example, sew or woven into clothing, or even increasingly, clothing woven from productive threads or or, for example, woven textiles. Circuit. So you can actually weave or enjoy a circuit on a fabric. So it seems to me that our portable, mobile technologies really are very literally converging with this history of textile production and faculty in particular. So again, these are all great sophistications of clothing, of this very basic index between bonding and its environment, which effectively is coming through time and turning itself into something quite different. Now I'd just like to end, if I may, with perhaps a way in which we can think about this, although, actually I just got two things to point out. One is that one of the fascinating things about thinking about it in terms of an archive, or kind of even a lost archive, but we can perhaps talk about the vocabulary later, is the fact that we tend to overlook it because it's still all around us. And in fact, textiles, generally, it's so obvious, we don't think that even this room is closed, normally, say, with curtains and drapings and so on. And I bet there's barely a person of anyone here who's not wearing some knitted guns of some kind. I mean, I don't think necessarily hands, of course, but these processes have obviously historically migrated from hand products to machine and now increasingly into this kind of smart fabrics, which is, I think, the future of the mobile phone, the ordinary mobile phone itself, the mobile technology. And as I say, there's no limit to what you can do with missing and last night, I found this poor electronic rabbit who was trying to run away from the street, selling him, selling it, and I just think it was his buying. Speaker 2 46:47 It's another example. I mean, to me, this is the equivalent in archives that who is going to archive this kind of thing? We it's made to be worn out a few minutes of life. So not only is the adorable thing committed, but it's also a classic case, just like things like we're talking about, and sort of thing that slips out of the archive. I guess this models have made it into the archive. Speaker 2 47:36 Now being broadcast the French historian, it says, It's pension and monotone efforts which tend to lead technology forward. Technology says, not only a matter of risk changes that were a little too quickly labeled as revolutions, but also slow improvements in processes and tools, there's innumerable actions which certainly have no innovation significance, but which are proofs of accumulating knowledge, the say, of fixing his growth, the mind, of digging his gallery. The peasant behind his plan, the Smith at the anvil, etc, and he talks about these are the technicians of the world, drawing on what he calls techniques of the more akin to a collection of recipes. And in fact, the word recipe is the term, the old term that was used for knitting patterns, as in the diagrams and instructions that people follow to produce knitted garments. That's actually the term that was used. Now I would suggest that knitting, and obviously, 1001 other activities belong in Rodell lift this kind of careful repetitions. It's like the background home of activity that was your short term living memory, the background noise. Maybe you could say of the archive in the more explicit sense, but this implicit, tacit archive that made those explicit archives possible with that. And maybe this is also where the mobile communications as a living and always dying, consequently, archive of messages, of links of networks of codes, patterns of behavior and so on. Speaker 3 49:40 Which is towards the Unknown Speaker 49:52 effect. So it's not a system managing Unknown Speaker 49:59 voice out. Happiness. It's about kind Unknown Speaker 50:01 of ethical Unknown Speaker 50:06 and systemic priorities. Speaker 4 50:07 So I wanted you to comment on that. By the way, I'm going to talk really epistemological worlds. And the other problem I didn't feel, and here, especially in a discussion archives, is about time and about how you see presence in relation to past and future, because it seems that within the system there's a kind of assumption of past and it's about being in the present, and there's some different sense of what is the future, and the future is always implicated, especially within a fact. So if you could talk about those two things, the account of Unknown Speaker 50:49 the work making itself. That's something that's kind Unknown Speaker 51:02 of on the side, and if there is to an ethics, would Unknown Speaker 51:12 be through an effect, rather than through any kind Unknown Speaker 51:16 of prescriptive kind of ethics that Speaker 5 51:30 the question of time is definitely there, and it's the whole tendency works against the notion of punctual time, or linear time is quite the presence of points on a line that succeed one another, because there's always a sort of folding in and folded back with time so that the smallest unit is already continuity. That implies a duration, at least virtually the way that comes out in relation through Unknown Speaker 52:07 effort to stern visibility, where he talks about Unknown Speaker 52:10 these amodal perceptions, Speaker 5 52:14 activation contours, and he says that they come, they arise as A kind of deja vu, even the very first time. Because when the link is made, when this similarity that's experiences, sort of grabs you, brings you into this non local proximity to a process, when that happens, it's sort of kind of like an echo, and this sensation of familiarity. So that the pastness is part of that present moment. You can't just separate the present from the past and at the same time, because it's affective, there's always a desire to imply because, if it's, for example, soothing, it implies an anticipation of a nice soothing, or a desire for a next one. So it's like a little leading together of dimensions of time that constitutes the present as a duration as a company, and the future element is important because it sort of opens the whole system. It introduces desire and openness about that's still perhaps court repetition, but it opens it up to novelty, in a way, so you can, sort of the attempt is to try to find all of those things past us and futurity, openness and different forms of determination right there, immediate perception. Speaker 1 53:47 I want to add something just with us to explain this to everybody. Affect in the list does not always refer to feelings to affectivity in our site of life, or refers to any capacity by anything, metals and wood and plants will affect and be affected ways to Unknown Speaker 54:11 prevent eating a perceptually or consciousness or awareness. Speaker 1 54:16 And it leads to ethics in a very simple way, because even some things that can affect and be affected by going affected by one another, we can ask, are they affecting each other's choice to enhance one another's house? Are they affecting Unknown Speaker 54:35 each other? Are they poisons, or are they food, Speaker 1 54:38 nourishment, and at least there is prey to an environmental type ethics in which a little bit of phosphorus nourishes the land, too much phosphorus poisons the land. So it's not good and evil is a matter of thresholds and experimentation with reality. It does seem important to put the exact was really kind Unknown Speaker 54:59 of. Away from students general voices. So how do you describe the effect? Don't have that that Unknown Speaker 55:18 kind of reference Unknown Speaker 55:22 within within Speaker 5 55:26 voice that would have deeper resonance or small sets of resonances. He's Unknown Speaker 55:32 an early childhood psychologist, Speaker 5 55:35 to get caught in that set of references. But I think you could open up very, very easily, for example, Unknown Speaker 55:43 by talking to other facility. For example, Speaker 5 55:46 staying within topics for the child, simply talking about a child pushing to animals or to moving toys, for example, immediately fields of experience that don't necessarily describe in a parental that's what I'd say. The kind of description I was doing has certain risks involved that I think require also be confident structures operating in matter itself, because Unknown Speaker 56:17 by concentrating too much on perceptual there's also Speaker 5 56:22 that research identification of the account that can be backed or psychoanalytic or prescriptions. Unknown Speaker 56:32 It needs to be counterbalanced by Fauci the next question, can you use a Macron? I Speaker 6 56:51 I start my question for the fictitious anecdote. I grow up in Germany in hours, and suddenly Unknown Speaker 56:57 historians find out that they house Unknown Speaker 57:02 was taken away from a Jewish memory in 1943 Speaker 6 57:06 my parents, for some reason, moved there, and suddenly this property is being restituted, and this can change my whole bio theory and memory. Now I mentioned this because there is a power of the archive in the precise sense, the archive as the institution which keeps legal documents as A apparatus with rule governed memory by several speakers here, affordable archive by several speakers here, I wonder whether this very liberal and almost metaphorical use of the term of archive for all kinds of memory, storage, collection, library, internet, data bank, whether we Don't lose the power of the archive, of the real archive, by extending it to metaphorical term, wouldn't it be, sort of should be, not be a little bit more careful in not mixing up the different memory memory agencies, because they have different ideological and real power over us, Even media so. But I don't know who wants to when Speaker 2 58:35 asked to think about this, last year, and I really start to think about this issue increasingly Speaker 7 58:49 confused, really about all these possible sense of the term. Unknown Speaker 59:03 Classical sense Speaker 2 59:05 of the term. And then, in my case, I've been talking about something, I must say that Unknown Speaker 59:15 we might exactly Unknown Speaker 59:19 this question to be explored through. Unknown Speaker 59:34 Questions that actually the question has Unknown Speaker 59:37 complexity on the other side, also Unknown Speaker 59:42 with Sadie pretty often having Unknown Speaker 59:46 an entirely used one should Unknown Speaker 59:59 look current at the. The even. Speaker 8 1:00:02 How can people even rolling that aside or saying media has limits, going to the classic liberal idea that was written about right record property to claim the custodian? Question, then, is why? For example, the German state, or more recently, obsessively archived in a classical moment about genocide. That's not data, making that classical archive as a service of genocide activities that never should be recorded at all, obsessively so the liberal model, which we're not talking about here, has another sign, which is really a very scary side, and the critique of which really so yes, the returning economic use will also enter space, which has to play down fairly Unknown Speaker 1:01:00 now, and I think under invest. Referencing to the point Unknown Speaker 1:01:11 of construction, literally. Speaker 8 1:01:22 Well, if one wants to say that there is a classic, yeah, I'm saying in Unknown Speaker 1:01:31 that classic model that I understand, Unknown Speaker 1:01:37 there are some instances of deep pathology, Speaker 8 1:01:44 or simply writing like this, so and so clearly that, in my mind, is a classic form daily deliver. And then, of course, people call it other things true. But I think the Unknown Speaker 1:01:58 distinction we Speaker 8 1:02:03 history is about to model our next question today, Unknown Speaker 1:02:27 question, I tried to elements in different Unknown Speaker 1:02:34 presentations, this element Unknown Speaker 1:02:41 of time first question Speaker 9 1:02:45 in the second question. The interesting thing with this patient, which is quite interesting for Speaker 9 1:03:02 them so whole idea of, in this case, migrant populations and being oriented to the future changes the whole issue. I think there's a very important thing also with Prime Minister's thing. I think the non the impossibility, discursively or digitally, to get a grip on this, perhaps sensibility instead of rationality. But there is a reflectivity in this sensibility, which is not rational. There is a reflectivity. My issue is, what is the reflectivity? It's not is New Media a form of reflectivity of this sensibility, or is this anticipation into the future a form of reflectivity of this sensibility. So it's my question, centers around this idea of breaking the rationality and the archive that, in a sense, is connected to it and the identity ideologically, the identity forming powers of this archive. Can you break this idea of identity by inferring new media. And techniques of new media, for instance, the artistic effort to to visualize globality. Can we enhance the sensibility by means of media? Perhaps mobile phone, in the sense like Sadie was talking about, it, can we enhance, enhance this sensibility by means of something, whatever, as a result of which a new reflexivity is coming to the fore? I know it's a very broad question, but my problem is that what I'm making is more specific. If I fall back into different disturb course I want to avoid. So how can we when we are talking about sensibility, how can we anticipate the specific reflectivity for this sensibility within the topics we are talking Speaker 1 1:05:19 about, and just to, just to make sure I understand the question, would you say that you can? Unknown Speaker 1:05:36 Discussion falls within what you're talking about, yeah, Speaker 9 1:05:39 what I'm talking about, but more in the evaluative sense than in the projective sense. The problem in the you understand what I mean, probably I think your dispositive you disclosed for us is has an incredible value for evaluating present situations. But once you start using this statistical dispositive, and it is statistical because there's information put in a certain grid, and you're using the grid to anticipate and in a sense, you close down the possibilities by using the grid. But okay, at the other end, within this specific dispositive, there are a lot of possibilities that are opened as well, this double exposure of this dispositive. But I think you can go to this Speaker 1 1:06:33 work which was also, which was basically about, if you're an architect and you have to plan a future, I mean, that is possibly future oriented, right? But it's open to the future, to the possibilities, therefore closely current laws. But it could be open if you express Speaker 9 1:06:52 those laws. So I would say that within that scope, within the scope. But what bothers me is the overruling influence of statistics within this would you Speaker 10 1:07:08 want to tackle that? I'd like your general observation Unknown Speaker 1:07:13 how to Unknown Speaker 1:07:16 you can raise sensitivity Unknown Speaker 1:07:22 with your your framework. So I also Unknown Speaker 1:07:43 know that there are limitations to Unknown Speaker 1:07:49 this effect of current constraints. Unknown Speaker 1:07:59 Nevertheless, Speaker 11 1:08:01 how to how to that? This question is not really yet answered in my world market, up to now, to make a system, develop an architecture or planning system, open or reflective, or the Unknown Speaker 1:08:23 ones who push society Speaker 12 1:08:27 or users, has not given it has not been given by artists, because Maybe historical problem of probably good nails that cannot Speaker 12 1:08:42 simply everything is expected or it's hypothetical. Speaker 13 1:08:50 So if that's a given, sometimes disease by Unknown Speaker 1:09:00 extracurriculars, yes, they are Unknown Speaker 1:09:03 in frame. Actually they are against Unknown Speaker 1:09:06 the frame of the current but at the moment, they help to Unknown Speaker 1:09:13 overcome the current discussions. And Speaker 9 1:09:19 is a usefulness It is implied by leaving it behind once you have, Unknown Speaker 1:09:24 once you have talked over the threshold. Speaker 14 1:09:27 But one possibility or to already advocate for for a new law for to leave the group or the threshold behind in order to have a wider center. Speaker 12 1:09:45 The location so it starts to get predict the possible limitations, therefore, anticipate Unknown Speaker 1:09:57 all that momentum for coming back. Or 10 years, and Speaker 13 1:10:03 therefore taxation get already started before the limitations there. Unknown Speaker 1:10:27 I have a question in response. Speaker 15 1:10:34 You have also in the discussion. Just now, you were suggesting a classification of modes of archiving. You can say there's canonical the canonical archive, and, for example, the knitted archive. And also in your talk, said you at least implicitly implied this was a different mode of archiving. Then in the talk you are in, you made a distinction between a state based archive and a non state, extra institutional motor archiving. And I'm wondering whether such typologies of motor archiving are really enough for us to understand the phenomenon, because it seems to me that there's one quite important dimension of archives that you miss in making such typologies, namely the fact of the appropriation of information. This is a critical aspect of all use of archives. And many archives take the information of other archives, in the sense that all these different, neatly classified archives actually are connected in all sorts of information flows. And in order to understand archiving, should we also ask the question of this appropriation of information among our I Unknown Speaker 1:12:07 when I started off thinking about this issue, I was Unknown Speaker 1:12:12 really, I suppose I was originally thinking of missing and Unknown Speaker 1:12:19 textiles, lost processes, irretrievable. Speaker 2 1:12:22 You. What happens to these things that apparently escape? You know what rewind, Unknown Speaker 1:12:31 just in later? What happens to all these undocumented, unrecorded Speaker 2 1:12:39 things? And you know, on the one hand, I wanted to suggest that there's something Speaker 2 1:12:51 always kind of positive. To point that out, partly due to many conclusion Unknown Speaker 1:12:56 that never should ever have alluded to some kind of Unknown Speaker 1:13:02 completion. In Speaker 2 1:13:11 particular that has this kind of deep dream archive. And I wanted to try and get that maybe Unknown Speaker 1:13:18 perhaps a ridiculous, Speaker 2 1:13:21 impossible dream. But as I impossible dream, but a dangerous illusion as well. So that was really nice size. But of course, in Dennis, you know, I got thinking well, is all that implicit tacit activity, some kind of implicit tacit material archive, honestly watching what they can with, using for Speaker 16 1:13:49 history, subjective as possible, that we also learned from the past. And what we have archives, more we have data, something very neutral, Unknown Speaker 1:14:03 ideally, the more we can Speaker 16 1:14:05 avoid responsibility. Whereas go to the archive as a game the archive, or mutually analyze the archive, analyze the archive in a way that everybody can see the red wing blue, and then we see we have the objective conclusion Unknown Speaker 1:14:18 from archive. I think that's just the way they avoid responsibility. Speaker 16 1:14:20 But it's also because we're confronted with so much responsibility, giving them so much data, and that forms great sort of in the same and maybe challenges to get rid of our apps, to have exploration for archives, or even exploration for history. And I don't want to Unknown Speaker 1:14:40 say Shimon Peres that in Speaker 16 1:14:43 history is all crap, the wrong kind of history, because it determines our future in a way of which battles were lost and we're not lost, etc. So in that kind of archive, which we call history is a wrong history is a wrong archive. It therefore will condition our future. In such a way that we're always before, that's probably clearly for the Middle East, but definitely a factor. So therefore, maybe history can be replaced by something like vision or intervention, which, again, he says, is something which humans have unique, which is one element from animals. So we and whenever I think of this, I think that the just the justifications for find Asian states lies in the past, only in the past. That was an exception. For some European countries, mainly Israel, pointed the United States, which have a vision as a basis, which are not responsible to the past, except essentially, Speaker 1 1:15:50 you of course, if I may add one more thing, just because I suppose what the issue here is the cognitive value of the data in the archives, whether archives contain the truth, for instance, or whether they contain factual data that corresponds with Reality. And I would have to add that, in general, data doesn't contain anything, is the explanations of data, models, theories and so on, which eventually give you some kind of grasp on reality. So when you have lots of historical data, but you don't have a historical model, say of social dynamics or economic dynamics or sociological dynamics, which explains the data, which gives you some kind of explanation of why the data is this way and not that way, without that explanation, without answers To why questions? Why is the data this way? Why is a fact where? Why were the fact that we don't really have knowledge? So we should probably not think about archives as repositories of knowledge itself, or rather as intermediate steps that, together with explanatory models, can you big, Unknown Speaker 1:17:37 because you get into you. Speaker 8 1:17:49 I wasn't sure whether you were thinking about which way you would think about appropriations Association, because I'm not sure there's the direction that safety tradition, which I think is very important, that is the question of the frightening utopia of completeness, and that raises one distinction between, say, for example, impulse to record and impulse to collect, for example, which is a kind of a friendly area. But leaving that aside, I just want to say, in relation to appropriation, yes, it's a big question, and archives that make it working upon, let's say state or otherwise, Kemp, to make it tougher, they narrow the range of appropriation. So this may be, deems a way to make a distinction which is not actually new, but which talks of a continuum where you have a certain kind of recording and power enterprise which is higher, which states, and we Unknown Speaker 1:18:51 know the history of those things, Speaker 8 1:18:52 and another egg which seems extremely COVID, so to speak. And then in between, we have lots of but that means one paper, rather than say, as you might say, as you guys still think there's something to do with the classical archive, which is my bias. I have a certain image in mind that has to the state's records surveys, and this is partly mu and that's why I am influenced by that. Unknown Speaker 1:19:19 I think it can't be Unknown Speaker 1:19:21 totally set aside as one important Unknown Speaker 1:19:32 part of whatever social meanings that Unknown Speaker 1:19:42 we're that were basically a good thing and Speaker 17 1:19:46 bad thing. But I'm a little bit confused the country I was born and didn't have for a very long time in Britain, archives, this is in music and in South Pacific and the Maori people. I. Obviously attach immense importance to memory and to transmission collective memory through oral sociality. So I think a bit distressed when I hear and this is no one. I'm not getting that darting lip picking. But when you talk about oral protocols and mobile phones as somehow being ephemeral, because in my culture, oral oral traditions and protocols are considered far more importantly significant than things written on pieces of paper that are just treaties that nobody obeys anyway. And I'm just wondering among these new socially interactive, elective community models, for example, how you view our capacity for discerning these very subtle differences?